“The Bachelor” Is Back: Emma Gray of the “Here to Make Friends” Podcast Talks Arie’s Season, Peter, and Sex on the Show
This year, new podcasts about the long-running ABC reality show The Bachelor launched with the speed of a drunk contestant streaking naked across the mansion lawn after too many free Tito’s and sodas. It seemed like everyone was hosting their own Bachelor Pod, from comedians like Michelle Collins, former contestants like Kaitlyn Bristowe and Ashley Iaconetti, and even self-identified “bros” who jumped into the mix to explore America’s favorite Monday night guilty pleasure.
Among those, a clear standout is “Here to Make Friends,” a Bachelor recap podcast that discusses not only all of the antics that give the show its delicious chewy center, but tackles heady issues like race and consent that have increasingly become part of the Bachelor conversation. Hosts Emma Gray and Claire Fallon, both writers at HuffPost, invite celebrity guests and former show contestants along the ride with them.
As the next season of The Bachelor gears up for its debut on Monday, Jan.1, we caught up with Gray (above right) about sex on the show, getting ghosted by Peter (gasp!), and being NOT stoked for Arie’s season.
TuneIn: Season 22 kicks off on Jan. 1 with former race car driver Arie Luyendyk, whose name we will all eventually learn to spell without copy-and-pasting.
This show has been on since 2002, and it’s only getting more and more viewers each season. Why do you think a show that’s 15 years old is more popular than ever?
Emma Gray: I think it’s twofold. It happens to be a show that works really well as appointment television, and also works really well as a live-tweeting show. There’s a community that has formed around it, and you have to watch it to be part of that community.
The other reason is that the show really taps into our base feelings and instincts about love and sex and dating. It exists in this world where you’re allowed to think, “Oh, look how nice it would be if dating and love really were this simple, and you could distill it down to this formula and you knew you would always have a satisfying conclusion at the end of 8–10 weeks.”
T: There are a ton of people out there who would say, “Oh, that show is so dumb, and such a waste of time.” And in the podcast community, sometimes it feels like there’s an intellectual bias against pop culture podcasts. How do you answer that criticism?
E: Oh, absolutely, and I would say that there certainly are aspects of the show that are dumb and fluffy. But there’s a wide range of pop culture that people consume and enjoy, and it seems like only the lighter pop culture that is coded female is labeled in a way that people assume you can’t have multiple interests. That somehow because I spend two hours watching The Bachelor, I must have completely missed an election, or I must not pay attention to all of the sexual assault allegations that are coming out right now. Half of my job is reporting on feminism and women’s issues at the intersection of politics and culture. Part of my job is also watching The Bachelor, and I think we’re completely able to hold multiple interests at once.
I also think that it’s a mistake to dismiss pop culture because pop culture is incredibly powerful, and the things that are projected back to us on the small screen are a reflection of the way that the needle is moving and the way people are conceiving of really big ideas like love and sex and dating and relationships, and as someone who continues to watch The Bachelor, it’s been fascinating for me to see the way that they’ve approached sex has changed a lot over the last five years. There are conversations happening on the show now that never would have happened six seasons ago, that now we’re seeing being talked about really frankly. So I think it’s an interesting gauge in a lot of ways of where our country is at in thinking about certain things.
T: Yeah, even though it’s 2017, people are still attracted to this idea of a fairy tale romance, which on the show happens largely with the context of a heterosexual white couple dreaming of building a nuclear family.
E: I think there’s been a lot of pushback against that idea that they portray, and rightly so. One reason we have our show is to enjoy the lighter parts of the Bachelor franchise, but also to also dig into why we are attracted to this kind of TV and to push back on the fact that it is overwhelmingly white. It is overwhelmingly straight. And in 2017, shouldn’t our popular culture move along with the larger culture?
T: Totally. One thing I’ve noticed about your podcast in particular is that you and Claire aren’t afraid to discuss issues like feminism, race, consent. Have you found that people from the Bachelor/ette are open to talking about these weightier topics?
“It seems like only the pop culture that is coded female is labeled in a way that people assume you can’t have multiple interests… that because I spend two hours watching The Bachelor, I must have completely missed an election, or I must not pay attention to all of the sexual assault allegations that are coming out right now.”
E: It depends who the individual is. Some people have their interests aligned with those things and are down to discuss it. For people who are more closely tied in with the franchise or are still under contract (Ed. note: Stars remain under contract for a year following their season’s airing), it obviously becomes a lot more difficult. Many of the stars want to stay away from anything that could be deemed controversial or political. We try to seek out guests who have said something interesting on the show or on social media who seem willing to engage in a larger way. I find those guests to be more interesting, and I think our audience appreciates hearing from people who are willing to have some healthy perspective on the franchise that they have become involved with.
T: How do you book your guests?
E: Sometimes people will reach out to us if they have a project coming out, like a book. But often we’re just very pro-active about it. We seek out people we find interesting; we reach out to them on social media or through email to see if they are coming through New York at all and willing to hang out with us.
T: Who has been your favorite guest?
E: That is so difficult! I have a lot of favorites. I loved having Carly Waddell and Evan Bass on. They are one of the most delightful couples to come out of this franchise. They were in New York to see the Broadway show Dear Evan Hansen, which made me love them even more. I also loved having as guests women from the show who have super intense personalities and are willing to do a deeper dive into their lives and careers. That includes people like Olivia Caridi. Andi Dorfman was a fantastic guest, and Derek Peth and Taylor Nolan, who were also really fun and adorable.
T: And has anyone turned you down?
E: There are certainly people we’ve reached out to who’ve never gotten back to us. It was bad timing for Dean [Unglert, of Rachel’s season], when we reached out to him, and Peter [Kraus, of Rachel’s season] never responded to us, which I’m still bitter about. I’m just saying, if he wants to come on and talk to us, we’re waiting!
T: Although I don’t know if I could focus if I were interviewing him because he’s so dreamy. I would just get lost in his eyes.
E: Right! So maybe it’s a good thing. I probably would be my least cool self.
T: There are so many Bachelor podcasts right now. You’ve got a ton that are hosted by devoted fans, like you and Claire, and then it seems like EVERY former contestant from the show itself is starting their own podcast. Why do you think this is such a trend?
E: Yes, it’s wild! Podcasting is a really intimate medium, and it’s a great way for people to get to know you, so I think a lot of Bachelor contestants are finding that it’s a really good way to kind of get their personality out there. I know a lot of them have expressed that you’re limited in how much of the “real you” is show on a show like the Bachelor because they’re editing so much material down and forming a very particular narrative. So after you get off the show, you find all these people judging you. I assume it must be pretty appealing to have this medium where you can make some money, do interviews and you can control your own narrative and tell your own story and focus it on the things you’re really interested in. We have Taylor talking about mental health, people like Olivia and Wells who professionally worked in broadcasting before they went on the show, so that’s a natural fit for them. It’s nice and intimate, but I’m a little mad that they get all the good guests now!
T: I also wonder privately how many of them are simply trying to extend their 15 minutes.
E: Yeah, if you go on reality TV, you probably want to capitalize on that moment in some capacity. I can’t judge it! Your name is out there, why wouldn’t you want to do something with that? And also, the more you get your name out there, the more FitTeas you can promote on Instagram.
“I think that it’s a mistake to dismiss pop culture because pop culture is incredibly powerful, and the things that are projected back to us on the small screen are a reflection of the way that the needle is moving, and the way people are conceiving of really big ideas like love and sex and dating and relationships.”
T: So I’m sure you guys are gearing up for Arie’s season [which premieres Jan. 1]. What are you most excited for?
E: I don’t know how excited I am about Arie’s season, actually.
T: Oh really?
E: I feel like it’s a little bit of a reversion. I’m worried that all of the women of color and all of the women over the age of 28 will be gone by episode 5, but I did enjoy Arie on Emily’s season. I’m looking forward to seeing him have some really good makeout sessions, because that was a great part of his time on the Bachelorette. It’ll be interesting to see who the cast is and what the personality types of the women they’ve picked for him.
T: I was also going to ask you your thoughts on The Bachelor in the age of Trump. I personally feel like I got way more into The Bachelor since the election, because it’s such a nice piece of mental cotton candy after a long day of watching the news.
E: Yes, yes, I completely agree. I think that my television consuming habits changed really intensely after the election. I have much less of a capacity for darker shows and for political dramas, just because I feel like the whole world is a very dark political drama right now. So I appreciate The Bachelor because it’s two hours that I can tune into this completely contained world where the highest stakes thing are whether you get a date, and what Neil Lane ring he’ll pick out at the end. Sometimes you just want that delicious fluff once in a while. And I think that that’s completely OK.
T: I’m wondering now if all the sexual harassment stuff will come up on the show in some way.
E: I doubt it. They have such a formula at The Bachelor, and they will continue to go with that formula unless they are presented with a reason not to. I think they like to not react to the news as much as possible. We had an entire season, Nick [Viall]’s season, which was literally filmed over the election, and we didn’t see one single conversation referencing it. I did hear that they told the contestants to vote absentee and encouraged that, but besides that, The Bachelor likes to exist in a world in which everything else isn’t happening.
T Does ABC reach out to you ever?
E: We talk to them very occasionally about scheduling, but largely they don’t like to get too involved.
T: How do you balance working at HuffPost with doing all the reporting that you do, and still have time for the podcast?
E: Podcasting is definitely is more work than I thought it would be when I first started. I knew nothing about what went into creating a podcast. Ours is a recap podcast, so it doesn’t take that much in terms of production. But I think it’s just about setting the time aside. I’m incredibly lucky that I work at a company that sees the value in audio, and sees the value in podcasting, and allows Claire and I to dedicate our Tuesday mornings to recording the podcast. But then because the show is on in the off hours, and we’re spending a lot of that time prepping and taking detailed notes, which is significantly more exhausting than you might think.
T: Anything exciting coming up for this season of the podcast that fans can look out for?
E: We’re in the process right now of booking guests, and I’m feeling very optimistic. We actually just recorded our first interview of the season today, and it’s Andi Dorfman talking about her new book. She’s wonderful and candid, and hopefully we’ll be able to bring Bachelor fans more wonderful conversations with people from Bachelor nation. And also dig into what I assume will be a very interesting season that comes up with a failed race car driver at the head of the show.
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Note: this interview has been edited for length and clarity.
